Watch This Before You Get a Hair Transplant | Spex & Dr. Anderson

It’s a special day at Anderson Center for hair. We have a very special guest in from a long way away. The none other than Spencer Stevenson aka Spex and we’re going to talk a bit about hair loss, the industry and I wanted also talk about Spex’ new venture, the hair loss lab. It’s a very exciting project that’s coming along. Spex, thank you very much for joining us. Hello here at the studio. You got it, you got it. So there it’s a long trip, you feeling much jet lag? Uh it’s not kicked in yet, but yeah, it’s been a bit of a mission. I’m heading over to Arkansas. My my daughter is heading over there to have a look at university. So we’re kind of syncing up and I thought it was just too good an opportunity not to come in and see you be able to close. Well, I appreciate you taking the time out of your your schedule and I do that. You were in Arkansas, I’ve heard great things about that. I guess your your daughter is an expert soccer player. She’s pretty handy. Yeah, she’s pretty good, but yeah, big big future ahead, let’s hope. But yeah, exciting. that. I’ve known Spex for just about 10 years or so and this is the first time though I’ve had an opportunity really sit down and talk to you about, you know, your history in the field of hair restoration. You’ve been an advocate for so many years. What originally motivated you to get involved in the industry and advocate for patients looking for hair loss care? Uh well, basically my story’s been really well documented. I was and I’ll make the story short, but I was a repair patient. I succumbed then to having surgery at the age of 24. I had four strip surgeries by a company I won’t name no names, but back in, you know, 25 years ago now. So that led me unfortunately on a journey and prior to that I was, you know, I really struggled with my hair. I tried a lot of different processes, techniques. I wore a wig. It completely traumatized me. I was well known for my hair and when I started to lose my hair, I really kind of paralyzed me, and I lost I felt at the time a lot about identity, self-esteem, self-worth. So, I kind of like like And at the time, the only processes you could research were by the Yellow Pages. So, there was not a lot of informa- Yellow Pages. Yeah, I know. God God Oh, they have those in England? I don’t Well, I don’t know if they’re still going there. If they do, they’re doorstops now. Uh I think But, that led me on a journey, essentially. And prior to having surgery, I’d been on a hell of a journey. And uh physically, mentally, emotionally. Which when and then I’d had poor surgery, which I thought was going to be the answer. It was sold to me as it was going to be the answer. Um I then realized, ah, I I’ve been kind of been had here. So, I I kind of fell at the hands of the industry, and I fell at it fast. And succintly, in a number of years, I had a lot of surgeries, jumped out of the frying pan into the fire. And uh again, a long story short, unfortunately, at the time, the internet was the dawn of the internet, and there were forums, there were prominent forums. Hence, the pseudonym, Spex. I mean, I’m I’m obviously, my name is Spencer, but I still go by the handle, Spex. My website is SpexHair. The brand that was built was built organically through, ironically, a pseudonym. Tried to navigate hair loss without anybody knowing I had a hair loss issue. So, it’s quite an irony now. There I’m quite quite prominent out there spreading the message that kind of through my journey of multiple repairs after that, multiple smaller procedures, tweaking it, you know, I openly certainly got OCD, probably ADHD. I like would did not want this thing to beat me. And fortunately, as it evolved, I I met a lot of people, I learned a hell of a lot. So, to answer your question, Ken, it’s like my journey has been arduous, laborious, costly, labor-intensive, financially grueling, and enabled me to get a message through my journey. I felt a calling to make sure people didn’t make the same mistakes I made. And very few people have had the number of surgeries I’ve got and the voice I’ve been able to help educate a lot of people. And you know, I’m I’m I’m really proud of what I’ve achieved and I’m about to achieve through this ongoing journey because what we’ve realized is hair loss is never-ending. And the the volume of people that are experiencing hair loss is never-ending. And the amount of information that is out there is frightening. Yeah. And the lack of accurate information that’s out there is unbelievable. So, the role that I’ve performed was really needed at the time and needed more now than ever. So, I set up Spex Hair. I’ve been really fortunate to have a lot of platforms that I work with to get the message out, which is education. And luckily worked with you for nearly a decade now. You’ve been a Spex Hair associated member and together we can help protect people. And that’s basically what my mission is about. Very good. Very good. Well, I know you’ve helped a lot of people through the years and it feels good, doesn’t it? It feels all right. I sleep well at night. You know, that’s what that’s what I tell my patients. You know, you you get what you give in this world and I sleep well at night. You know, we I turn patients down. I surgery for a lot of men is should be a last resort, you know. So many patients come in to see me and they are unaware that having a hair transplant does nothing to stop the progression of actual hair loss. They come in for a transplant and you know, basically I tell them that, you know, no, we’re going to be working through some other things first and in some patients I’ll even say if you go somewhere else and they offer you a transplant, you know, that’s a big red flag. You know, 18, 20-year-old men with hair loss who haven’t done any prevention, you know, these sort of things. Um, I know you speak with patients from all around the world. Just want to pick your brain a bit. Uh, what trends uh, concern you the most right now that you’re seeing out there? Oh, um, good question. I think the trends is what you’ve just touched on that. I think sadly people are having an immediate reaction to their situation of of was it get from denial and really ex- understand that they’re experiencing hair loss is that they’re wanting to fix it as well as possible, you know. So, I think the trend is that people don’t really understand the the the long-term implications of surgery and the nature that hair loss is progressive. And as you just touched on that accurately is I feel that a big trend is people just want an immediate reaction. I’ll get this sorted. I won’t worry about what I look like in 5 years. They don’t really understand the the implications of getting surgery and not creating that foundation or putting preventative measures in place to to build the wall on that foundation. And I think that’s a trend that is we’re always going to fight because people now, unfortunately the world we live in, Amazon Prime, it’s like you you want it now. And people just think they want to just hop they’ll get it sorted. I’ll hop on a flight. I’ll go to Turkey. I’ll go wherever. Just do it now. Just do it now. Oh, they don’t think that they’re going to like worry about it when they’re 30, 40, 50. Well, I’m 50 now and I had my first surgery at 22, 23. I’m still as concerned now about my hair as I was back then because maintenance is key. I’m still at the risk of losing more hair. So, to answer your question, the trends are people sadly just want still a quick affordable fix and they don’t worry about the long-term implications and that’s where my role and your role as educating these patients as you rightly said. We’ve got to educate you first, buddy. Come back in a year once you prevented everything and let’s build on that foundation. Yeah. I I completely agree. I I over the last several years I’ve noticed something and it speaks to your point about patients wanting that immediate fix cuz we’re kind of in an instant gratification world. Excellent point about Amazon Prime. Like it’s just so ridiculously convenient. But I’ve had patients, young men you know, 25, 26 and who say, "I won’t I don’t I won’t care what I look about or what I won’t I will not be caring about what I look like when I’m 40." Yeah. Because they think that 40 is old. Yeah. And um it it’s it’s kind of shocking if you understand the psychology of aging and I have looked into this a bit. It’s It’s funny that young that I’m sure you look great for 50, by the way. I I did not think I did not think you were uh in in the in the big 5-0, but I I will say that, you know, I’m sure you feel still feel like a strong young man. it’s always We all feel like we’re bulletproof when we’re 20 years old. That Well, I still feel I still play hockey. I still feel bulletproof, but I still work out. I still play hockey. I still get up in the morning. I’m ready to go and I still you know, I think a lot of younger guys feel that when they get older, they’re going to like psychologically have this transformation where they’re going to be like, "Okay, I’m ready for the cane and walker." No, that that feeling of youth and vitality of of being alive and wanting to take it take over the world, that never goes away. And that what changes is the guy in the mirror. Yeah. Yeah, I know. And so I have to sort of help these patients sometimes understand like, "No, you will you’re going to care more about what you look like when you’re 40 as opposed to now because the inside you, you know, who you are, that life force never really changes, but that that is out there." Okay. And um definitely. Another question I got for What are some of the red flags that patients should look out for when researching clinics? Cuz I know you research clinics all the time. You deal with uh many across the world, and I just want to hear your opinion on Yeah, well, I have a uh a good insight. I do I work with a lot of clinics all over the world, good clinics like yourself. And a big was the number of red flags, but predominantly, like you just said, surgery is the last resort. The clinics that are telling you that we can get you in tomorrow, and telling patients what they want to hear as opposed to what they need to hear, are flags for patients to consider. And what I mean by that is common sense is a powerful tool in hair restoration. Because the hair restoration industry built on vulnerability and desperation, a lot of these unscrupulous places will tell patients exactly what they want to hear. And like, "Yeah, we can sort it out. Don’t worry, you’re not going to lose any more hair." Because they are uh the business model is they just need bumps on seats, bumps on seats. And I’m a clearinghouse for complaints. I have to deal with those those repercussions. Uh Clearinghouse for complaints, that’s funny. But I deal with patients all the time that have been like essentially missold in the sense that I was sold that I I wasn’t going to lose any more hair. Like, "Well, how can No one’s got a crystal ball here." So, the the key red flags people really need to understand is if a clinic is selling you exactly what you want to hear and making it really easy to have surgery, then stop. If clinics are telling you, "No, surgery isn’t for you now. You need to go about it this way." and trying to educate you rather than signing you up, they are the clinics that you want to uh kind of create a relationship with. Because hair loss is all about It’s like a long It’s like a marriage. You know, if you embark on hair loss and hair restoration, it is for the long term. It is not You’ve got to think short, mid, long term. So, you’ve got to sign up to that partnership with the right person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I actually tell my patients and I said, I hand them my card and I give my consultation patients my cell phone and I said, this is a long-term relationship we’re starting, just like with your dentist, you know, you see him at least once every 6 months, that’s what’s going to be like for you and me. The patients don’t want to hear that, you see, because patients sadly, especially when we dealt with this medical tourism of of I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of people are ba- basically they’re driven by price fundamentally and they want a quick, affordable fix. They patients are sadly, this is human nature, they they tend to really kind of subconsciously zone out what they don’t want to hear. And so, when they hear what they is favorable to them, i.e. "Oh, you are a great candidate. Oh, we could easily sort that out. Oh, yeah, don’t worry too much. You might need another surgery, but we’ll look after you on that. Oh, actually, we’ve had a cancellation. You want to come in next week? We could drop two over breast." So, those are classic, common sense. If you went in to buy a Ferrari and the guy said, "Oh, funnily enough, this one’s available now and we’ll drop five grand off it and we’ll throw in, you know, something else as well." You’d be like, "Hm, hang on a minute." Like, so, it’s common sense is is a an incredible tool. Uh a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. So, you’ve got to uh and my whole kind of philosophy, and this is why we’ve worked closely together for 10 years, is education is key. And I’m all about educating patients, giving them the tools, giving them the resources, not just SpexHair. I’m a big kind of promoter of the ISHRS, the American Hair Loss Association, too, cuz people then have got a really good fighting chance and a starting point given the the of false information that’s out there. Now, all there clinics out there that aren’t part of these organizations that are really good? Yeah, there are. But, the majority, when you’ve got this huge number of clinics relatively speaking, that you can go and have an accurate informed consultation with and give yourself a fighting chance of getting accurately guided, then they you know, it’s it’s it’s on that patient’s head if they’ve not used that information. We can only lead a horse to water. Yeah. Uh we You got me there on that trip. Yeah, that’s a good point. I think one of the things that uh uh you know, of course, I’m biased but because I’m on this side of the fence, but if I were a patient, it’s uh the way I try to structure my consultations with new patients, it’s much it’s very educationally focused. We’re trying to like talk to them about the A’s, B’s, and C’s of hair loss, imbue upon them that this is a long-term thing, that hair hair transplants do not cure hair loss, and there’s there’s no high-pressure sales, you know, with like well, you can do that surgery 5 years from now. There’s no rush. It’s elective medicine. And I tell patients that, you know, if you’re uh going to go somewhere and they’re trying to rush you into I did a secret shopping of of a clinic here in Atlanta. I’m not going to say which clinic, but when I first got to Atlanta, um I uh before I became known in the city, uh in 2008 or so, uh I went to this clinic and they said and I had no hair loss at the time, mind you. I have a little bit now, probably could use a few grafts, but at the time I didn’t have any. And they wanted to sell me 1,200 grafts, and they didn’t even ask if I was on any medications that could conflict with the medications used in surgery. And they’re like, "Oh, yeah, well, we’ve got a can- And just like you said, we’ve got a cancellation this Friday. There you go. And if you want And we This was a Wednesday. So, in 2 days, if you want to have your hair tw- Well, we’ll knock another uh $2,000 off of it. And there was a lot of high pressure uh to get the surgery right away. Not a single mention about prevention. Not a single mention about the fact that I didn’t have any hair loss and it just it’s it was a bit shocking because I’m I’m very ethical in the way I run the practice of the way Dr. Wetzel, my associate runs you know, we got to do right by the patients as we talked about at the beginning but it’s it is crazy about what’s out there you know, what people are willing to do for for money really. Yeah, well what you’ll find is people that are kind of of average intelligence will have a consultation. They’re very vulnerable. They’re very desperate. They’re kind of praying on every word that’s on this your side of the table. They’re they’re trusting that doctor. But fortunately now there’s you know, it’s a bit of a double-edged sword. There’s a lot of information out there but a lot will go leave the consultation either sitting in the car, driving on the way home and they’ll be like that kind of doesn’t kind of make sense and and patients sadly have to go through this process. There’s only so many people we can try and get this information out to. But then retrospectively they realize Jesus that’s like of course it makes complete and utter sense. And there’s an irony here that surgeons like yourself and I’ve spoken with patients of yours who emailed me and said Dr. Anderson won’t perform on me and I’m like well that’s probably for a really good reason. Well why is that? He said well I’m not on finasteride and I but I want the surgery now because I’m getting married in 6 months. I’m like well buddy you you you’ve got to just understand why the doc is telling you that is in your best interest because if you rush in and have surgery now, trust me you’re going to be canceling your wedding because you’re not going to look good. Whereas let’s just walk talk through this walk through this and set yourself up again for that long-term relationship that you’ve got to build with your own hair. The hair is is painfully slow while you lose it and it’s agonizingly slow when it’s growing back in. So the key to it all to put yourself in your best foot forward is because the tools and the information are out there. It’s just finding it. And it’s it’s educating yourself so that you have the good outcome long-term. I’m the secret to my success despite 13 hair transplant procedures, all relatively small procedures are by today’s standards. But, the secret to my personal success of my hair is preventative treatment. Right, I was on finasteride for a good 10-plus years. And then I kind of had a a bit of an inkling and just obviously being heavily involved in the industry and interacting with patients and hearing their stories and hearing, you know, I I’m not I’m not like I’m not I’m human. And like I’m hearing there are always finasteride going to start wearing off. So, I got onto dutasteride and it was probably a really strong move for me because what it did was it maintained my mid to my crown and kept everything solid, you know, so that’s the secret to my personal success when I have all these questions that come across the board because and just for the record, you know, it’s very rare for somebody to have 13 hair transplants. Oh, yeah. I could have I could have actually come to like a physician like yourself where I started out and I would have probably needed with right treatment, the right plan over over probably two to four years had two surgeries and had exactly this result. That’s a good point. I’m going back to the the patient education aspect. One of the thing that, you know, I’ve done some thinking about this and you know, the whole industry is based on that they they put a big focus on the number of grafts, the graft number. Now, that is the invention of Dr. Larry Lee Bosley when he first opened his clinic in 1972 in Beverly Hills. I know the clinic well. That’s where I went. Okay. But, sorry to interrupt. So, they um you know, but back then you you could count the graft, right? The they They 4-mm plugs. You could count them from across the room, unfortunately. Um but now it’s it’s where, you know, they can’t really be counted. Um but and I think that the whole industry is still focusing on graft number. What I think that is done, unfortunately, um because you can kind of break down the price like, okay, you know, the price is whatever thousand dollars, but that’s only, you know, $4 per graft. Then it comes a very small number. Helps with sales, I guess. Um but I think one of the side unintended consequences of that is that it’s sort of commoditized the the the service, right? Like I think it it’s pretty easy for patients to make the jump, oh, they said 2,000 grafts. And this clinic said 2,000 grafts, but this clinic is, you know, more expensive and they don’t really understand that you know, there are so many shortcuts that you can take in the in the in providing this service. It’s just you know, from from the instruments to the solutions to the skill that the surgeon to the skill of the technicians. There are so many shortcuts to take that they they kind of don’t understand that there’s there’s way more to it than the graft. Saying two transplants are the same because they have 2,000 grafts is just kind of like saying these two cars are exactly the same because they both have four wheels. Yeah. And I think that that’s a bit of a problem because I I do get a lot of patients in in here. They’re like, well, they said this many grafts. And I’m like, okay. Maybe, you know, we need to talk more about, you know, the differences in some of the transplants at these different places. Yeah. Well, it’s a really important point you made because sadly there’s there’s always going to be a price war in hair restoration, but new people new coming into this uh surgery or hair restoration don’t understand the complex nuances of it all. And you you it’s very difficult for patients to understand comparing eggs with eggs because hair restoration is not a cookie-cutter type of procedure. So, unfortunately, the only stake they have in the ground with their limited knowledge and in that vulnerable state and information overload, is they hang on to the concept of how many grafts they They don’t really truly understand what that means, like Yeah. They don’t really understand the the implications and the long-term implications, the donor management implications, the the supply versus the demand, all the different variables. I could go on for 20 minutes talking about how one patient is different to another patient. But, what is key, I think, to give people that are watching this a fighting chance, is you need to consult with ethical surgeons who are deemed honest and and transparent to guide you. And you could go to five ISHRS accepted members, and every consultation could be slightly different. Mhm. Now, that does not mean that every single consultation wasn’t in the patient’s best interest. Mhm. And yes, within that scale, some patients may believe or rather some patients may come away from that consultation and have a variety of No, you’re not ready for a surgery. Yeah, you are, but you need to be on medication for 8 months before you come in. Uh yeah, you are, you know, you need 2,000 grafts. Or yeah, we could do 2,500. The the the the the margin between all that is so fine. Yeah. And it all depends on the patient, their circumstances, their age, their medication, their hair loss patterns, their genetics. There’s so many variables. So, it’s it’s impossible to say, yeah, let’s compare that with that. And this is what is really important patients need to understand. And that’s why I’m a big component of education, understand the implications of hair restoration surgery, and go and get guided by somebody that knows what they’re doing and has got the patient’s best interest at heart. And that’s all we can try and do. Well, you know, that’s a great point. You know, doc I Doctors are just people, right? I I have got this I have actually I just Doctors are just people who went to medical school and I think patients ought to I tell patients this, you know, go have another consult, you know, who do you feel comfortable with? I see the hoarding today. Yeah, but cuz as as we mentioned earlier, these are long-term relationships. And you touched on hair loss prevention, you know, I was fortunate I had a really sort of A-lister global icon patient of mine came out in People magazine and on his social media he was on the I think a red carpet recently with TMZ and Mesika. You know who we’re talking about, of course. John Cena and he on a legend great guy great guy. I did not know he was going to come out on social media, but if in what in one of his interviews, I think it was last September he I’m so happy that he did this. He he he pointed out that during his care when he came to see me, we didn’t jump into a transplant. Yeah, you know, I put him on hair loss prevention and we did effective scalp care for about 9 months or so before before we stepped to his transplant and I’m thankful for him for sort of helping spread the word and lower the stigma. I think he’s and I told him this personally recently when he was here. I said, "Listen, you’ve done so much for the industry to help a lot of men understand that this is something within their reach. It’s not a personal badge of shame. It’s just the way you were bullet your man’s man as well to go out there and just hit it with a flat bat. And he he’s hit it with a flat bat, yeah, but he much like Wayne Rooney the big foot you call it or you know what it is or is it soccer? Well, when he came out, you know, like 15 years ago now. What he did is he he he normalized it. He brought the stigmas down around it and that’s why like it’s brilliant like shows like The Bald Truth where allow people to kind of talk about the issue and it’s been great to over the years been a part of the Bald Truth UK to allow people to talk. What Wayne Rooney did was because he was so famous, he had 80,000 people in the stadium every weekend talking about hair. You know, people down the pub, down the bars talking about hair. He enabled men to connect and rather than that stigma of oh, you’re losing your hair and they’re joking cuz like, oh, I’m losing my hair like, why don’t you go and get a Rooney? Now, what’s happened is 15 odd years odd, John Cena has gone and openly and so humbly as well. He’s like, not going out there and promoting the fact. You didn’t even know he was going to say it. You know, I asked him to do it, but that was so legitimate. The way that he said it was so organic because what he wants to do is he’s like, look, I’m losing my hair. It’s cool to lose It’s like not cool to lose hair. It’s cool to talk about it and if you want to do something about it, there’s ways to go about it and I went to this guy. And it’s like unbelievable how many people he’s he’s empowered. Yeah, I was I was really surprised that when he first posted it on his Instagram, I was actually down at the Steve Hightower Salon about to get my own haircut. It was I’ll never forget it. It was a big day in my career, August 9th, 2025 and I was scrolling through Instagram and I saw a picture of myself and I thought, that’s a funny I I thought about you, Megan. I was like, why did we post that particular picture? But then I know I looked up and it was posted by John Cena. I had oh my He didn’t say He didn’t tell me he was going to do that, but I think I’m I I thank again, I think he’s done like you’re doing a lot to sort of help raise awareness and reduce the stigma of of hair loss and what to do about it. So, speaking of raising awareness, I understand that you’ve got a new venture cooking? Yeah, yeah. Well, um as part of this kind of trip that I’m on, I’m kind of uh I’ve been very fortunate. I was uh always kind of wanting to uh spread awareness and I’ve been very fortunate over the years with my platform Spencer Hair and great resources like H2 Ahead of Hair Restoration like to kind of create a new platform that enables people to get even more information. And I’ve I’ve kind of like launched this new hair loss lab which is essentially a podcast that enables a variety of different ways of getting information out there. And fortunately I’ve got some great people that have backed me with it. Uh who have been uh through the process, have met with me, we’ve created relationships over the years, they know what I do, they know what I’m about, they know where it’s coming from, the my my mission to help educate. And I’m really excited, you know, and having you on as one of the original guests is to kind of just help spread awareness on all the different kind of kind of facets of of hair loss and hair restoration and kind of medication and and just to enable people like you just brought out John Cena to to to raise awareness whilst kind of making the stigma of hair loss much more acceptable because we live in a world now where everything’s accessible, more information is accessible, people are sharing information. But that’s actually not a great thing in the sense that we’ve just discussed, people rushing into surgery. So what I wanted to do is like my information’s always been getting out, I’ve been very lucky to have a voice in the mainstream media. But this is more like a kind of bolt and braces. It’s more like kind of robust in the sense that it’s a resource people can refer to, listen to podcasts, listen to stories, watch interviews. And I’m very fortunate that people that are coming on board and helping me with it have the real ability to get it seen and heard on a big scale which I’m super excited about. So yeah, really really really looking forward to it. And I’ve got I’ve got a couple of the bits for you Ken. Oh is that right? Well, you want to be original Hairless Lab. I’ve got you a cap that I want you to have and maybe well, maybe when you’re mowing the lawn or you’re doing some gardening, I’ve got a Hairless Lab t-shirt for you. And if you look on the back there, the principal the front says the Hairless Lab. That is swank. But on the the principal on the back is to kind of educate, empower and elevate and that’s kind of what I’m trying to do with Brace yourself. awareness to and with people like yourself, we can get the message out there to a lot of love it. Yeah. I love it. And you know what I’ll do Ken, I’ll even throw in a mug for you with Look at this guy. Look at this guy. As part of the Hairless Lab family, you know, you’re going to be Hopefully involved with us from Super nice of you man. That is classy. That is classy. I might have to replace my gym mug up. But that is so cool man. Don’t worry. Listen, thank you. And you know, it’s a pleasure to I really do That’s really that’s nice of you man. Well, I really appreciate you showing me around, you know. I mean, let’s just talk a little bit about the clinic. I think I did referred when we were walking around, you could probably have a running track in here. I mean, what is the square footage of this place? It’s about little over 10,000 square feet. I mean, it’s a big square footage for a hair restoration facility. So it’s also educational facility. I know with a massive conference room. Yeah. And I got the photo studio and we’ve got offices like this room for the for the podcast. We got three hours in here. Four. There’s four Four operating rooms back there. I I’m old school. I call them operating theaters. I’m not sure if you saw that on the label. Yeah, no I did I did. The attention to detail is all right. The operating theater one through four and and then a separate lab for the hair wash station, the lab, minus 40 degree freezer for the regenerative medicine products. We got a centrifuge room. You know, this is I consider them my studios. Right, I was an art major in college and and that’s one of the things I love most about the whole career is is literally I feel like I’m going to work to do little works of art every day in the spirit of pointillism. You know, the site making instrument is a pencil like instrument and I’m kind of just making some sites, listening to music and like I did when I was When I was a kid, used to come home from hockey practice, get out to my room and just draw, listen to music and wait for mom to call me for dinner. So, it’s just very relaxing to me. I just kind of get in there, but you know, I wanted to because I spent so much time here, I wanted a a nice set up. Yeah, no, I I really is. It’s a beautiful location. I mean, I’ve never been to Alpharetta, but my wife and my daughter were here as I mentioned and we’re blown away. Like I’m really looking for I hope my daughter goes to university locally because it will mean I can come here quite regularly. But with regards to like, you know, you’ve had me on the ropes here with a few questions. Far from on the ropes. You’ve been very kind with the questioning. But in terms of like just tell us a little bit more about the facility because this is going to go out on the Hair Loss Lab. A lot of people are going to see it from all over the world. So, I want to them to understand a little bit more about you and your facility and kind of like, you know, how many procedures are you performing on average a month here and tell me through that your team, how many team like but you’re the only surgeon working from this facility because you’ve also got a colleague that works over in Aso. Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about Anderson Center for Hair. Okay, Anderson Center for Hair was founded in around 2012 and it started out at my original office which is in Atlanta in a section of Atlanta called Sandy Springs and that’s a wonderful office. I was there until about 2017 when I opened up this one. We are at the Avalon in Alpharetta. It’s a beautiful campus. It’s a sort of a work, eat, shop, play center. If you kind of like a really high-end outdoor mall. It’s got all the nice restaurants and stores. It’s ample parking, but I wanted this facility specifically at the Avalon to be really a a center for the cutting edge treatments of hair loss. I mean, my background is facial plastic surgery, but since 2003 I’ve just been strictly and exclusively focused on the the subspecialty of hair restoration surgery. So, I wanted to create a center that could offer comprehensive care both from a non-surgical and also a surgical standpoint, but also have a wing for education. I founded the American Academy of Hair Restoration Surgery and so we train doctors. Of course, I’m on staff on the faculty for Emory University School of Medicine and we fairly routinely have residents and even faculty members from that medical school come visit me here and spend a day or two with me both in the surgical room which I’m motioning this way cuz they’re behind this wall and the surgical rooms and and in consultation to really sort of help educate, you know, the next generation of physicians. Let me ask this. So, you’re facial plastic surgeon. Yeah. But that’s where you started your journey. Yeah. Why hair? Given the all the different kind of areas you could have gone into with facial plastic surgery. Why hair? Good question. Um it I’ll give you the sort of the medium There’s a long story and I’ll give you the shorter story. Essentially, the reason I’m a plastic surgeon is because I wanted to be a an artist. I was all through grade school growing up I wanted All I did was want to draw. I was that kid in the class who was always drawing. I asked my parents like "What do you want to do with your life?" I’m like, "I’m going to be an artist." And they said, "No. No. You’re You’re going to starve." Um so I I thought, "Okay, something else." So when I was about 14 or so, I was over at a neighbor’s house and and he happened to be a one of my friend’s dad. He was a infectious diseases specialist, Dr. Corrado in the Philadelphia area. And he was making a sandwich on a Saturday afternoon and I asked I said to him like, "Dr. Corrado, I’m thinking about becoming a cuz I was just kind of considering life choices. But I was 14. I’m like, "Maybe doctor, I don’t know." I said, "I’m thinking about becoming a doctor. I don’t have any idea what kind I would be. What What are your thoughts on that?" Or something to that effect. And without even looking up at me, he just was putting stuff on his sandwich and he asked me a question that changed my entire life. He said, "Well, can you draw? Are you any good at art?" I My eyes got wide. I thought, "Yeah, that’s my whole world, brother. What What Yes, tell me. What is What do you’re going to tell me?" He’s like, He just casually said, "You should be a plastic surgeon. You’d be good at it." And and and from that moment forward I thought, "Done. That You can do art of the face." I was like, "Ding ding ding." I I cleared the gate. I I was like it was written in the sky. I’m like, "Yeah, that’s done. I’m cuz I was always already getting good grades. I’m like, "Just keep that up, brother." So, you know, fast forward uh what? 18 years. And so I find myself at 33, finished my residency in ear, nose, and throat surgery, finished my fellowship in facial plastic surgery. Um now this is very personal to me. The I I got confused. I thought he said, "You’d be good at it." He’s right. I got the little manual dexterity down. But I got confused. I thought that performing say a facelift would feel like I was creating art. Mhm. To me, that is like I’m not speaking for anybody else but me. But to me, it didn’t feel that way. It was very It’s kind of cookie-cutter because you’re very surgical landmark based. You cut behind this, in front of that. You dissect here, you dissect there. You’re kind of like work work on an engine. It’s There’s all the parts labeled and you pull everything tight. You cut this You throw a drain in. Kind of felt very procedural, not very creative. And I didn’t feel like I was creating I I I didn’t love it. I In 2003, I kind of I discovered hair restoration surgery. I spent a couple of weeks with Dr. Martin Tessler in suburban Detroit, just outside of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, right? Just finished my fellowship and my my whole world was changed because I assisted him for 2 weeks on these surgeries. He was making the sites and I thought, "You know what? That Jeez, and and I I he got me involved cuz I was, you know, licensed physician in in the surgeries and I was thinking, "This feels exactly like I’m creating Yes, it’s more fit." And I just I thought, "Oh, wow." So, I went to the 2003 ISHRS meeting and uh there was uh and I and then I realized it had just gone from the one hair or the the the mini grafts to the one hair at a time transplant. These are ultra natural results and there was this job offer with Dr. Bill Rassman in Beverly Hills and I thought, "Okay, that’s not a coincidence." So, I signed up and kind of the rest is history. And I just, you know, like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, making those recipient sites, I I literally feel like I’m coming to work every day to create art and I just love it. That’s great. Well, I think it’s really important that people watching, cuz obviously I think it’s really important I found that relationship that the patient has with their doctor is really, really important because it’s not the I I Like I said, the clearinghouse for complaints, but I’ve also been the patient in the chair countless times. I’ve I’ve been privy to tens of thousands of patient experience stories, good and bad. Yeah. But what you find through that process is the guys that are performing this who are passionate about it. They are really caring about it. Who who come from a place of whether they’ve had surgery themselves and they got into that or like you just related that story there how your journey was one that was very organic but kind of meant to be which is fascinating. So people that are listening to this are like, "Oh, the guy’s like gets this. He loves it. He loves it." Cuz there’s so many clinic and this is why to differentiate people when they’re googling hair transplants, this is why you want a physician that’s so passionate about the art and the and understands the nuances of of hair restoration compared to "Oh, this guy can get it done for 2,000 cheaper $2,000 cheaper. I can get it tomorrow but I don’t know who’s performing the surgery." And that’s boils right down to what we said about "Well, this guy’s 2,000 grafts and this guy’s 2,000." Who are you going to go to? You know? So it’s just interesting to get that from you in a way that’s you know, I didn’t even know that. Yeah, well and I’ve known you 10 years. So it’s important that the patients understand where you’re coming from from that passion because from that passion becomes the results. And you know, that’s why you’ve been a successful and as renowned as you are and you’ve got people like John Cena banging on your door to perform a hair transplant. Well, you know, I’m I’m fortunate and thankful for that. You know, I’m it’s not it’s not me. It’s my I’m sorry. Our awesome patients. I’ve got I work hard of course and I’ve got an awesome team around Tell me about the team. Tell me about how many technicians you’ve got there and you know, I’ve met your your your lovely colleagues here but tell me a little bit more about the intricacies of the team here Anderson and Roe. Yep. So we’ve got um I’m fortunate to have assembled an amazing team. We’ve got stars at every position including Madison and Sam. They’re our front desk coordinators, one at each office. You know, the people answer the phone uh have to deal with so many questions. Some patients are uh you know, hair loss is emotional, right? Hair loss hurts. And so they they have to deal with a lot of sometimes emotional patients. So they are absolute studs. My COO is a woman named Bex Mitchell. She kind of is the glue that holds it all together. Matt Longshore is our patient care coordinator. Lucky to have found him. He worked with Bosley for about 12 years before I hired him about 10 years ago. So he’s he has pretty much just about the same amount of experience in this field as I do. We had I, you know, the the culture here Anderson Center for Hair is vastly different than it is at a place like Bosley. So he he, you know, he got to downshift. There’s no high pressure sales. Good touch points throughout the journey. Educational based and he loved that. So he’s super passionate about his job and and and, you know, can answer most any question about pre-op, post-op, hair loss prevention, all of it. Because he’s had so much experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then my technicians, um you know, we’ve got Keisha is my head technician. She another Bosley transplant. She was the head technician for the entire Bosley corporation. They used to fly back when I hired her, I think 11 years ago, she was working with Bosley and they would fly her around to the different clinics in the United States. She’s a very disciplined Jamaican woman and you know, doesn’t tolerate any foolishness as she puts it. And so I best be on my best behavior then. And she knows every I have to She’s I joke she’s Keisha’s the boss here. I I just work here. Sounds like my wife. So I have Keisha and she knew everybody in the industry because she’s been doing it so she’d already been working with Bosley for I think at least 10 years before I hired her. So can I ask you a question? So obviously there’s that where you referred to her working with Bosley for so many years. Yes. Now, did you find I I this is a there’s no kind of ulterior motive here, but I was a repair patient of Bosley. Bosley had been performing procedures for cameras years. A big franchise as essentially the McDonald’s of the hair transplant industry. Just to let people understand it. But was there an unwinding of certain protocols, certain techniques, certain methods that you felt you needed to fine-tune? Yeah. So talk me through a few of those things because I think this is something that isn’t discussed openly is the fact that much like doctors, no technician is the same. And and the doctor is only as good as their technicians. And with somebody that has an army of technicians that you have and are performing kind of procedures day in day out, you as the as the the name on the door need to train these technicians in such a way that they understand the meticulous nature giving your background, your artistry, everything. Cuz they’re so heavily involved. You can’t perform the surgery without them. Right. So tell me about through the kind of unwinding that’s required in that scenario. Well, you know, I think in a company the the the tenor of the company starts at the top. The the attitude towards the the patients it starts at the top, you know. So I when we sat down when I hired them, I made it very clear, you know, we this is we’re not nobody’s in a rush. All right, this is a work of art. We care about our patients and they can see how I interact with the patients. And so when they see how much I care about the patients and and we I think that just allows them because they’re all very they’re they’re empathetic, caring humans. They’re not robots, right? They’re people. And so you know, I had to basically we we had them downshift, slow it down. I said we’re not going to use the cup. We’re going to put, you know, keep them in the dish. We had We got protocols about which solutions to use in term the the follicle holding solutions. We don’t just use saline, we we use Custodiol HTK, how much to put in there." And I kind of set up all the protocols. And at the beginning, you know, it would be kind of a daily, you know, I would go over the whole process before the the procedure started. And I mainly trained key show. But I’m back there involved with the procedures the entire day. So, Any pushback from these technicians? Let’s say they’ve been trained in a certain way. You’re telling them to do something and they’re like, "Oh, no, actually Ken, I think we should do it like this." I don’t Has there ever been any kind of restriction in that sense? Or are you telling them, "No, this is how it I hope I’m big on education, right? I’m big in terms of the patients, but also in terms of, you know, anybody here at the clinic. So, I said, for instance, in terms of how many follicles we’re going to take out of the dish. We’re not going to put a huge pile in a cup where they’re going to dry out. Yeah. And I And I And I To speed the process up. To speed it up. I I explained it to them. Like, look, we want the very best results for our patients. We’re going to see them again. You know, they’re our friends. And so, we point out that the longer those follicles are out of that that liquid, the less likely they are to make the journey from the donor area to the recipient area. So, we want the best results. And so, we’re going to just kind of modify things. And yeah, and I don’t stress them out with huge numbers of cases. Like, I understand it some clinics and they told me, you know, they’re doing in their previous position, they were doing up to four surgeries a day. I’m not We’re not doing that. I You know, we typically do one surgery a day. Sometimes we’ll do two if it’s a smaller case in the afternoon. We’re not going to two You know, we’re we’re not going to do two huge surgeries a day. Anyone who did four cases a day to what means that’s just that’s just a machine. Well, those are those are I will tell you it’s easy to tell because there are some practices that are owned by businessmen. Yes, of course. Right? That’s a big Well, look at that. That’s an incentive to patients out there. If you can tell you can find out who owns the practice. Yeah. If it’s owned by a group of men who are not practicing physicians in that practice, that leads to a I think I think as in any service industry, it leads to a much more greater focus on the bottom line dollars than if that practice is owned, like this one is, by a doctor who’s involved in the surgery everyday. I care about the patients and um you know, I don’t I don’t have an MBA, right? I said so it’s it’s not about the Yeah, yeah. We don’t have monthly budget meetings. I’m I’m as I’m sure they do at some other practices that are owned by businessmen. Well, that’s a great kind of uh kind of go to for anyone researching. It’s like that’s a red flag. Research Research who owns the place. Yeah, because if it’s owned by a consortium of investors as opposed to the doctor’s name whose name’s above the door and he’s performing surgery performing surgery, rather, then chances are you’re going to put yourself in a better situation. It’s common sense. Potentially. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, certainly potentially. I mean we’re not naming names, but you know, there are practices out there that are owned um by businessmen. You know, you have got to the they’ve got 20 or 15, 30 doctors on their website. They’re all over the nation. You know, that’s not a physician-owned practice typically. So we we I don’t know. I think But that I think that’s with any uh Well, it doesn’t any way you sort of ask resident. It’ll it’s just diluted and you know, hair restoration has become a commodity like we know and it is a very competitive environment. It is driven by emotion. Yeah. And what is really important is that these conversations are had and people who have a real interest in looking after themselves for the long term just spend time listening to her, listening to what we’re saying. Try to understand what we’re trying to tell you here. It’s It’s not always that we’re saying don’t have surgery, it’s saying get educated before you have surgery. And understand if you’re even an eligible candidate for surgery, because you’ll thank us for it in the end of the day. Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. It’s It’s It’s a It’s a funny industry in that you It’s It’s important for the patient to have to educate themselves. Like, you know, if you’re going to have an appendectomy, you know, it’s it’s the the bar is very high for a general surgeon to even offer you an appendectomy. I can’t speak to the UK, but certainly here in America, you’ve got to have a board certificate in general surgery. You’ve got to get hospital credentials at at the hospital. And um And you know, those And a medical license. But, that one’s relatively easy to get. But, the board certificate and the hospital credentials, those are not easy to get. In hair transplant surgery, um you know, people are often shocked to find out all you need is a medical license. No board certificate in anything, no hospital credentialing. The barrier to entry for a hair transplant surgeon in the United States is relatively incredibly low. And meanwhile, Yeah. But, that then opens up the ability to to offer the opportunity for people to have surgery. That But, then what’s happening is it don’t even doctors that are performing the surgery, it is actually technicians that are performing the surgery. And you don’t know what their experience or background is. Yeah, that’s one aspect, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, people are are shocked in this country, you know, a practicing psychiatrist who was seeing patients on Friday has every right to on Monday uh if he had the instruments and uh and the patients, you know, with with no training whatsoever, at all. He could watch YouTube, couple Doesn’t matter. Could offer hair transplant surgery on on Monday, having just, you know, and just hang a shingle, "Now I’m a hair transplant." And if you look carefully at got across the United States, most of the hair transplant surgeons do not have a board certificate in any ABMS certified surgery, like, you know, the So, it’s it’s a funny field and I and you got levels of talent and experience with surgery are all over the place. You touched upon the experience of the technicians. I think that yeah, it is a huge red flag if the technicians are doing you know, certainly administering any medication, certainly making the recipient sites. You know, I’m I’m I’m lucky. We All of my technicians, you asked how how many I have. I have about nine. Each of them has a minimum of seven years ex- Most have 10 to 20 years experience. And the combined, including Matt, and our combined experience in this field, all the staff, is is actually over 200 years, which is So, the most important is an important question that patient should ask, how many years experience have your technicians What patient would think to ask that question? Right. That’s pretty That’s getting into the granular That’s a board but he just started last week. April Oh, you The barrier to entry is this There’s You can just show up and like, now I’m a hair transplant surgery technician. No training required. It’s little things like that that are common sense. Like, these these people are the people that are performing the most time in in touch with your scalp physically. So, you want to know how many years have they been doing this? You know what I mean? But just obviously, we’re we’re we’re limited to time here. But I think a really important is to ask about your colleague. Your You have another surgeon that he works under your banner. Tell us a little bit about him. Dr. Wetzel is amazing. Another star on the team. He’s been with me about four years. In a former life, he was a neurosurgeon. And he transitioned into He used to work on the inside of the the head. Now, he works on the outside. And I trained him about the ins and outs and how to do hair transplant surgery. He had a full 6-month training program with me. When I sat with him in the room initially, you know, he was just watching, but you know, he’s already surgically trained as a neurosurgeon. So, he’s really good with the fine detail. And so, he’s been down at the Sandy Springs, about 15 miles from here. He’s at the Sandy Springs office most of the time. He’s up here on Wednesdays. Wednesday’s my non-clinical day. I’ve got to attend to the business and you know, other appointments. But so, I operate Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Dr. Wetzel is here at the Avalon on Wednesday. So, I get to catch up with him in person. And we’re friends, too. We go on our cycling together and we go out to dinner with the ladies. But he’s been You can see check his online reviews. Patient is an IA interest accepted member. Like he’s I’ve I’ve heard only all of the things about it. And so, I’d be fantastic. I think it’s just important that because no one man can do it all, you know? But no, that’s interesting. But look, Doc, I just want to say, you know, thank you so much on a Sunday. Yes. On Memorial Memorial Day Sunday, Memorial Sunday, when my family and I made the plan to come over here, we did not realize it was such an important weekend. So, I wanted to thank you so much for and your and your colleagues here to come in on a such an important weekend and and share your time with me and allow these people that are watching the inside that they wouldn’t normally have from inside one of the best hair transplant surgeons in the world. Well, I appreciate you saying that. It’s you know, I don’t get to see you as often as I’d like to because we’re located across an ocean. So, when you told me you were coming in, I’m in town, it was that was an absolute no-brainer. I’m like, we’re going to go spend spend some time with Spex. Yeah, and I’m super thankful. This is awesome. Buddy, I will put these to use. Yeah, I promise you that. I hope so. And thanks again. You got it, Dr. Ken. This has been of course Dr. Ken Anderson and Spex Spencer Stevenson here with he’s just launched the hair loss lab. I’m proud to be an early partner in that with him and I think we’re going to have a lot of fun with that. So stay tuned for that and thank you for tuning in today.